Third Edition

Moderator: BrilliantRain

 
User avatar
Dinosaur
Essence 10
Essence 10
Topic Author
Posts: 10456
Joined: 08 Aug 2005, 00:46
Title: Social Justice Kaiju
Exalt: Lunar
Fighting Style: Natural Weapons
Artifact: Audient Quill
Location: Most Emphatically NOT in the Wyld

Another Lunar Revision I Did

25 Sep 2012, 16:50

Some time ago, in case people on other forums I frequent wanted to see it.
I write stories. No, really.
 
User avatar
webkilla
Essence 6
Essence 6
Posts: 1483
Joined: 18 Sep 2009, 12:20
Title: Barbabe arbiter of unbound gravitas
Exalt: Alchemical
Fighting Style: March of the Thrice-linked Digital Webwork
Artifact: 4Chans Might
Location: Denmark, land of lego and vikings
Contact:

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

25 Sep 2012, 19:33

I like

the new tell mechanics - not sure I agree with those. A tell being that you're a cyclops now? A little too extreme imo. but hey, to each his own

I like the new anima powers. I might end up using those in later games
I have a webcomic: http://psitech.comicgen.com - Its kinda like exalted, except more furry, more fanservice, more fun, more sci-fi.
- may contain people being called "bob"
 
User avatar
Dinosaur
Essence 10
Essence 10
Topic Author
Posts: 10456
Joined: 08 Aug 2005, 00:46
Title: Social Justice Kaiju
Exalt: Lunar
Fighting Style: Natural Weapons
Artifact: Audient Quill
Location: Most Emphatically NOT in the Wyld

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

25 Sep 2012, 19:58

webkilla wrote:
I like

the new tell mechanics - not sure I agree with those. A tell being that you're a cyclops now? A little too extreme imo. but hey, to each his own


It's what was allowed back in 1e - explicitly so, in fact. In any case, the "feature of your spirit shape" can easily lead into too much confusion over noticing that a lion has a lion's claws or that a housecat has cat ears and a tail being significant, somehow.

I like the new anima powers. I might end up using those in later games


Now without a dependency on Occult! ^VVVVVVV^
I write stories. No, really.
 
User avatar
webkilla
Essence 6
Essence 6
Posts: 1483
Joined: 18 Sep 2009, 12:20
Title: Barbabe arbiter of unbound gravitas
Exalt: Alchemical
Fighting Style: March of the Thrice-linked Digital Webwork
Artifact: 4Chans Might
Location: Denmark, land of lego and vikings
Contact:

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

26 Sep 2012, 01:17

I was always under the impression that the tell was sort of 'reversed' when in totem or warform...

like - "hey, that lion is acting strangely... intelligent"

or "hey, that walking lion-monster-guy over there is... a walking lion-monster-guy!"

and the the tell would usually only 'taint' all the other forms, as well as the human form
I have a webcomic: http://psitech.comicgen.com - Its kinda like exalted, except more furry, more fanservice, more fun, more sci-fi.
- may contain people being called "bob"
 
User avatar
Dinosaur
Essence 10
Essence 10
Topic Author
Posts: 10456
Joined: 08 Aug 2005, 00:46
Title: Social Justice Kaiju
Exalt: Lunar
Fighting Style: Natural Weapons
Artifact: Audient Quill
Location: Most Emphatically NOT in the Wyld

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

26 Sep 2012, 18:55

webkilla wrote:
I was always under the impression that the tell was sort of 'reversed' when in totem or warform...

like - "hey, that lion is acting strangely... intelligent"

or "hey, that walking lion-monster-guy over there is... a walking lion-monster-guy!"

and the the tell would usually only 'taint' all the other forms, as well as the human form


That would be a meaningful contrast, but it was never mentioned in the book. So it's still "that lion has lion's eyes - that lion must be the shapeshifter with lion's eyes!"
I write stories. No, really.
 
User avatar
webkilla
Essence 6
Essence 6
Posts: 1483
Joined: 18 Sep 2009, 12:20
Title: Barbabe arbiter of unbound gravitas
Exalt: Alchemical
Fighting Style: March of the Thrice-linked Digital Webwork
Artifact: 4Chans Might
Location: Denmark, land of lego and vikings
Contact:

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

27 Sep 2012, 07:10

True - it makes the tell meaningless in the true totem form

but I just don't see the logic either of "Hey, my totem is a goat... so all my forms have slitted eyes"

Would be interesting to see if 3rd Ed. addresses this issue.

However, until then I'll personally argue that the tell is something that mainly expresses itself while the lunar is in a human or non-true form.

Equally, RAW states that while in a true animal form or warform (from what I understood) the tell becomes very obvious... I read this as 'it becomes very easy to spot in subsequent alternate forms"
I have a webcomic: http://psitech.comicgen.com - Its kinda like exalted, except more furry, more fanservice, more fun, more sci-fi.
- may contain people being called "bob"
 
User avatar
Dinosaur
Essence 10
Essence 10
Topic Author
Posts: 10456
Joined: 08 Aug 2005, 00:46
Title: Social Justice Kaiju
Exalt: Lunar
Fighting Style: Natural Weapons
Artifact: Audient Quill
Location: Most Emphatically NOT in the Wyld

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

27 Sep 2012, 11:18

webkilla wrote:
True - it makes the tell meaningless in the true totem form

but I just don't see the logic either of "Hey, my totem is a goat... so all my forms have slitted eyes"


It generally helps the conversation not to posit the most problematic or dysfunctional assumption of the possibilities. I get enough of that from the WW forums. ^VVVVVVV^

In the case of 2e, you could only have horns, or possibly a beard, or hooves, etc. Under the 1e scheme, those are possible, but you could alternately have backwards-bending hands (which Raksi was too cool to lose to 2e, apparently), devil horns, or a body part of some non-flesh substance (like Medusa's brass talons).

Would be interesting to see if 3rd Ed. addresses this issue.

However, until then I'll personally argue that the tell is something that mainly expresses itself while the lunar is in a human or non-true form.

Equally, RAW states that while in a true animal form or warform (from what I understood) the tell becomes very obvious... I read this as 'it becomes very easy to spot in subsequent alternate forms"


RAW states that it's not so obvious that it appears to people under a certain Dodge MDV threshold (though as you might imagine, I'd rather it work against Perception + Awareness).
I write stories. No, really.
 
User avatar
webkilla
Essence 6
Essence 6
Posts: 1483
Joined: 18 Sep 2009, 12:20
Title: Barbabe arbiter of unbound gravitas
Exalt: Alchemical
Fighting Style: March of the Thrice-linked Digital Webwork
Artifact: 4Chans Might
Location: Denmark, land of lego and vikings
Contact:

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

27 Sep 2012, 15:15

I'd rather it not be percep+awareness - or if it had to be based on those attributes and abilities, then have it work as something based on static values instead of a dice roll

I like the idea of the tell suppression working as a subtle mental illusion


and I thought that rakshi's bendy hand were from her chimeric mutations...

but I see your points - backwards hands don't really fit any animals, not even monkeys - but its a cool detail


I guess I just don't like the idea of 'unnatural' tells. Being a cyclops, or spines growing out your back... I just don't see the 'link' between that and having an otter totem
I have a webcomic: http://psitech.comicgen.com - Its kinda like exalted, except more furry, more fanservice, more fun, more sci-fi.
- may contain people being called "bob"
 
User avatar
Dinosaur
Essence 10
Essence 10
Topic Author
Posts: 10456
Joined: 08 Aug 2005, 00:46
Title: Social Justice Kaiju
Exalt: Lunar
Fighting Style: Natural Weapons
Artifact: Audient Quill
Location: Most Emphatically NOT in the Wyld

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

27 Sep 2012, 17:10

There's not much a link between totem and anything. The hows and whys of the spirit shape's significance have been left unexplained in any useful way for the entirety of the time they have been fixtures of the Lunar Exalted.
I write stories. No, really.
 
User avatar
webkilla
Essence 6
Essence 6
Posts: 1483
Joined: 18 Sep 2009, 12:20
Title: Barbabe arbiter of unbound gravitas
Exalt: Alchemical
Fighting Style: March of the Thrice-linked Digital Webwork
Artifact: 4Chans Might
Location: Denmark, land of lego and vikings
Contact:

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

27 Sep 2012, 17:42

Oh - I thought they were linked to your totem and personality and such

but ok
I have a webcomic: http://psitech.comicgen.com - Its kinda like exalted, except more furry, more fanservice, more fun, more sci-fi.
- may contain people being called "bob"
 
User avatar
Dinosaur
Essence 10
Essence 10
Topic Author
Posts: 10456
Joined: 08 Aug 2005, 00:46
Title: Social Justice Kaiju
Exalt: Lunar
Fighting Style: Natural Weapons
Artifact: Audient Quill
Location: Most Emphatically NOT in the Wyld

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

28 Sep 2012, 16:12

webkilla wrote:
Oh - I thought they were linked to your totem and personality and such

but ok


That's how the book says to choose one. What it says about the Lunar Exaltation and why it occurs are questions that have never even been touched on.
I write stories. No, really.
 
User avatar
webkilla
Essence 6
Essence 6
Posts: 1483
Joined: 18 Sep 2009, 12:20
Title: Barbabe arbiter of unbound gravitas
Exalt: Alchemical
Fighting Style: March of the Thrice-linked Digital Webwork
Artifact: 4Chans Might
Location: Denmark, land of lego and vikings
Contact:

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

28 Sep 2012, 18:30

Oh - ok
I have a webcomic: http://psitech.comicgen.com - Its kinda like exalted, except more furry, more fanservice, more fun, more sci-fi.
- may contain people being called "bob"
 
User avatar
Daerim
Essence 5
Essence 5
Posts: 981
Joined: 24 Sep 2005, 15:35
Title: Dawn Caste
Exalt: Solar
Fighting Style: Solar Melee
Artifact: The Tabar Perihelion
Location: Chiaroscuro

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

28 Sep 2012, 19:40

I liked the Lunar in the novels (which I shall now never mention again), and if I remember correctly, his Tell was a Moonsilver eye. I had not realized that 2e did away with non-totemic Tells entirely and removed all of those fun Tells by way of not explicitly allowing them. I must have glossed over that.

Over-all I like the rewrite. Some nice little changes in chargen, which I've always thought Lunars got screwed over by. At the very least, the implication that the Pact, as an organization of two to three hundred Celestial Exalts, is actually capable of educating its new members is a welcome assumption.

I do have one concern though, perhaps I just missed the rationale behind it somehow. Why did you get rid of the Fury-OK keyword? I rather liked that mechanic. At the same time, turning Relentless Lunar Fury into an Overdrive Charm is nifty, but my kneejerk reaction is that a possible 5 motes per DV refresh for a scene is pretty strong (stronger than the Fury-OK stuff, I think) and that the active pursuit clause might shaft ranged combatants who want to keep their distance.
 
User avatar
Dinosaur
Essence 10
Essence 10
Topic Author
Posts: 10456
Joined: 08 Aug 2005, 00:46
Title: Social Justice Kaiju
Exalt: Lunar
Fighting Style: Natural Weapons
Artifact: Audient Quill
Location: Most Emphatically NOT in the Wyld

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

28 Sep 2012, 19:49

Fury-OK derived from a concept-choking mandate - Lunar charms had to burn hard and fast and die out quickly under the 2e manual assumptions, and the 1e book assumptions. However, this sort of setup tends to not only involve book-keeping in tracking the number of actions you still have, but in making Lunars unable to effectively participate in a variety of exchanges on footing that actually becomes their supposed power. Thus, ditching the "many short-lived metacombo" of Fury-OK and replacing it with a set of, overall, longer-lasting effects.

As for its specifics, it's meant to promote a specific kind of combatant. I may have been a bit brain-fried to add in more, as editing all Lunar material through the entire line is tiring and can lead to horrid lapses of attention, but I have a selection of Overdrive concepts that I can cull, brush up and post (which I had originally made when there was a call for fan material to supplement 2.5, just a few weeks before its release, but never quite got around to posting).
I write stories. No, really.
 
User avatar
Daerim
Essence 5
Essence 5
Posts: 981
Joined: 24 Sep 2005, 15:35
Title: Dawn Caste
Exalt: Solar
Fighting Style: Solar Melee
Artifact: The Tabar Perihelion
Location: Chiaroscuro

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

29 Sep 2012, 10:59

Hmm, I can see the rationale but I don't know... it just strikes me as throwing the baby out with the bath water. Book keeping isn't the greatest thing, but its never going to go away completely and the core concept of extending instant-duration effects over a short period of time was something neat that only Lunars could do (at least to the extent that they could do it).

Maybe its just different perspectives. I see it as extending the duration of brief effects and if not perfectly executed, a good idea and an actual aid to longevity in a fight. Maybe not the match of things like Infinite (Ability) Mastery, but not every instant-duration Charm can benefit from an effect like that. So personally, I'd have changed it to extend the full benefits of Fury-OK Charms over a duration and dispensed with the inherent benefits. Maybe even converted it into a Knack or inherent Lunar capability.

Converting it into an Overdrive with a constant flow of motes does the same thing, in a way, and its more flexible and sensitive to the needs of the moment than a duration extender. But like I said, I worry that such a strong and consistant drip would be an issue and without it the Overdrive can't match up to the original intent.
 
User avatar
Dinosaur
Essence 10
Essence 10
Topic Author
Posts: 10456
Joined: 08 Aug 2005, 00:46
Title: Social Justice Kaiju
Exalt: Lunar
Fighting Style: Natural Weapons
Artifact: Audient Quill
Location: Most Emphatically NOT in the Wyld

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

29 Sep 2012, 12:05

Longevity with a merely actions-long effect was inherently less when you went up against people with more powerful scene-long Charms. This isn't just Infinite Ability Mastery (which nothing can compete with); DV penalty reduction Charms are much stronger amongst other Celestial Exalted, with Lunars requiring more Charms to do what others do in half that number.

As another concern, Fury Charms were heavily centered on Charms for a limited number of Attributes, and whether something was scene long or had a Fury effect was incredibly inconsistent.

The greatest problem, however, was probably in the "you must buy this one Charm to be effective in an endeavor, and we have structured the Charms so that this is unavoidable." At least with this method, you can take it or leave it and aren't forced to buy it in order to not suck. My apologies for not broaching that in the previous post; it's been a while since I thought about the problems, and a lot of my attention has been riding on the Werewolf 20th anniversary track while waiting for Exalted 3e to come out. This is wonderfully fortunate, as Ex3 might not be/probably won't be out by December, according to Holden's twitter.
I write stories. No, really.
 
User avatar
Daerim
Essence 5
Essence 5
Posts: 981
Joined: 24 Sep 2005, 15:35
Title: Dawn Caste
Exalt: Solar
Fighting Style: Solar Melee
Artifact: The Tabar Perihelion
Location: Chiaroscuro

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

30 Sep 2012, 02:56

I just think a wide ranging ability to extend Durations is a neat effect and an opportunity for Lunars to be able to do something mechanically unique. I'd hate to see it vanish entirely.
 
User avatar
webkilla
Essence 6
Essence 6
Posts: 1483
Joined: 18 Sep 2009, 12:20
Title: Barbabe arbiter of unbound gravitas
Exalt: Alchemical
Fighting Style: March of the Thrice-linked Digital Webwork
Artifact: 4Chans Might
Location: Denmark, land of lego and vikings
Contact:

Re: Another Lunar Revision I Did

30 Sep 2012, 11:34

I agree Daerim - but equally then with the 2.5 combo rules the need for Fury combos aren't there anymore
I have a webcomic: http://psitech.comicgen.com - Its kinda like exalted, except more furry, more fanservice, more fun, more sci-fi.
- may contain people being called "bob"

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests