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Kitsunemimi-Maiden
Essence 3
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Joined: 02 Aug 2007, 13:21
Title: Official SidereaLunaRaksha
Exalt: Sidereal
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My Personal Errata: Heaven Thunder Hammer

14 Dec 2012, 10:50

Who doesn't like the big strong warrior punching a guy through four walls? It's one of the most classic, amazing demonstrations of his physical power. Heaven Thunder Hammer is perfect for that
Until you realize that it basically becomes instant kill vs anyone who doesn't perfect it, unless used in a flat, featureless plain. If you punch someone 30 yards at a wall two yards away, it does an extra 28B ... for 3m. Suddenly the ST has to choose between letting you punch enemies through the walls, or letting enemies survive more than one attack. If there's anything to be hit INTO, HTH is a cheap perfect-or-die.
Enter my simple fix:
The distance calculation remains the same [because it's FUN to send someone flying 30 yards!]. Every terrain feature that is hit rather than damaging the target like a fall, increases the pre-soak damage of the base punch attack by 1. They smash through any wall whose soak+Damaged HL rating is lower than their remaining distance. If they hit a wall they cannot break through, they take +1 minimum damage as well.
As a Hero keyword effect, a target takes +2 dice of pre-soak damage per wall they go through rather than 1 die, and +1 success on the damage roll for striking a hard wall that stops their flight, when a Solar uses this charm
A demonstration may be in order. Raging Bull, having just trounced the Nexus Firewalkers outside a tea shop in a slummy section of town, sits down and orders a drink. The waitress makes a playful joke about his horned helmet. He backhands her angrily with Heaven Thunder Hammer. This surprise attack deals 20B of damage to her, knocking her back sixty yards.
[Normal Heaven Thunder Hammer] She hits the wall and takes an extra 54B of damage [with a Stamina of 2, she takes 70B total], which results in
(8:41:29 AM) The_Lady: Kitsunemimi-Maiden invokes the Lady...
(8:41:29 AM) The_Lady: 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 7, 7, 7, 8, 10, 10
(8:41:29 AM) The_Lady: rolled 18d10. Got 6 Successes against a TN of 7, rerolling on 11 or better
(8:42:47 AM) Kitsunemimi-Maiden: !roll_ww 52 7 11
(8:42:49 AM) The_Lady: Kitsunemimi-Maiden invokes the Lady...
(8:42:49 AM) The_Lady: 1, 1, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 7, 8, 8, 8, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10
(8:42:49 AM) The_Lady: rolled 52d10. Got 22 Successes against a TN of 7, rerolling on 11 or better

28 levels of damage, splattering her into a red paste. Much the same would have happened to ANYONE struck - a DB, another Exalt, etc. They might have had the soak, but the damage is disproportionately high for the cost of the charm. An Ess 3 Lunar with Stamina 5 [5B] and both Hide-Toughening Essence [+6B] and Armor-Forming Technique [+9B] maxed out, plus Stone Body [6B] abomination in his war form [+1B], has 27B soak. The original attack is reduced to 1B. Hitting the wall for 54B is reduced by half!... to 27B
(8:46:39 AM) Kitsunemimi-Maiden: !roll_ww 1 7 11
(8:46:41 AM) The_Lady: Kitsunemimi-Maiden invokes the Lady...
(8:46:41 AM) The_Lady: 7
(8:46:41 AM) The_Lady: rolled 1d10. Got 1 Successes against a TN of 7, rerolling on 11 or better
(8:47:14 AM) The_Lady: Kitsunemimi-Maiden invokes the Lady...
(8:47:14 AM) The_Lady: 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 7, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10
(8:47:14 AM) The_Lady: rolled 27d10. Got 12 Successes against a TN of 7, rerolling on 11 or better

...13 levels of damage, splattering our heavily prepared Lunar pretty handily; he needs Ox-Body Technique at least twice, purchasing -4s, to not be Incapacitated.

[My Revised Heaven Thunder Hammer] She hits the wall and smashes through it, and another six walls behind that[54, 48, 42, 36, 30, 24, 18] leaving dust and broken wood in her wake, smashing into the eighth wall. Having impacted with a total of eight features, the original punch deals +16 raw damage. She takes 32B damage after her 2 bashing soak
(10:31:27 PM) The_Lady: Amani invokes the Lady...
(10:31:27 PM) The_Lady: 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6, 7, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 9, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10, 10
(10:31:27 PM) The_Lady: rolled 32d10. Got 15 Successes against a TN of 7, rerolling on 11 or better

and is splattered for 16 levels, as any mortal SHOULD be after going through eight walls. The above Lunar goes the same distance, taking 32B damage; his 27B soak reduces this to 5B, and the wall that stops him adds 1 minimum damage [so 3] and one success...
(10:32:28 PM) The_Lady: Amani invokes the Lady...
(10:32:28 PM) The_Lady: 1, 2, 4, 8, 9
(10:32:28 PM) The_Lady: rolled 5d10. Got 2 Successes against a TN of 7, rerolling on 11 or better

He takes 3 levels of damage, leaving him worse for wear for certain, and seriously considering using his 60 yard lead on Raging Bull going somewhere very far away from the Solar.
Last edited by Kitsunemimi-Maiden on 19 Dec 2012, 00:32, edited 1 time in total.
On Infernal logic:
(4:22:38 PM) Nekomimi Maiden: So I did the only logical thing.
(4:22:49 PM) Nekomimi Maiden: I fell in love with the bad guy and twisted his spine into a pretzel
 
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Deaths Pale Mistress
Essence 7
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Re: My Personal Errata: Heaven Thunder Hammer

15 Dec 2012, 01:15

I second this. While I love the work Ink Monkeys did for the Charms of 2nd edition...I think somewhere along the line the math they came out broke down and they didnt realize and/or didnt fully play-test it such a scenario going for "Rule of Cool" as opposed to anything else.

-DPM :mow:
Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the years
Finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the scroll,
I am the master of my fate:
I am the captain of my soul.
 
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Dinosaur
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Re: My Personal Errata: Heaven Thunder Hammer

15 Dec 2012, 11:05

Deaths Pale Mistress wrote:
I second this. While I love the work Ink Monkeys did for the Charms of 2nd edition...I think somewhere along the line the math they came out broke down and they didnt realize and/or didnt fully play-test it such a scenario going for "Rule of Cool" as opposed to anything else.

-DPM :mow:


It's not difficult to eyeball. It is, however, difficult to toggle bars with what 2e promises (vast powers over others for Solabyssinfernals), and there may still have been a ponderous mandate on what had to be included in 2e before a number of behind the scenes events occurred and the developer's seat changed hands, by which time they were putting more effort into early 3e development anyway. It's the same reason that Fury is still a thing for Lunars even though it's a hot mess of a transuranic collar dragging them to the bottom of the ocean. The "burn hard and burn out" crap just doesn't work when you're supposed to be having potentially long duels as a matter of heroic course, but it was what they went with, and it had to be included in MoEP: Lunars by a creative mandate.

Thankfully, it's a low probability that its touch will defile 3e.

(Has now made use of the Knack that allows transformation of any thread into a Lunar thread!)
I write stories. No, really.
 
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Daerim
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Re: My Personal Errata: Heaven Thunder Hammer

18 Dec 2012, 15:18

Another option would be to cap impact damage at some trait-derived value. Strength, Essence and Martial Arts are all prime candidates, possibly multiplied by two for a larger value if desired. This would make it a flashy, stunt-limited counterpart to effects like Fire and Stones Strike.
 
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Kitsunemimi-Maiden
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Joined: 02 Aug 2007, 13:21
Title: Official SidereaLunaRaksha
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Re: My Personal Errata: Heaven Thunder Hammer

19 Dec 2012, 07:45

Reviison I posted last night: Changed it to "+1(2*) pre-soak damage per object impacted, +1 minimum damage (+ 1 automatic damage success*) if a solid object stops the knockback.
Asterisk components are Hero keyworded.
On Infernal logic:
(4:22:38 PM) Nekomimi Maiden: So I did the only logical thing.
(4:22:49 PM) Nekomimi Maiden: I fell in love with the bad guy and twisted his spine into a pretzel
 
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Henry
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Re: My Personal Errata: Heaven Thunder Hammer

19 Dec 2012, 08:24

Looks pretty good to me. My only concern is: is it good enough? The knockback effect is pretty powerful and you have the added bonus of knocking people through multiple walls, but the damage adder is pretty minor because, let's face it, you're not all that likely to send people flying through multiple walls. So the damage boost will usually be +1, with +1 minimum damage.

That's okay, but not great, and I'm not sure if it's entirely in line with a 3m, supplemental CMA or Solar charm. Compare it to One Weapon, Two Blows. Maybe you should double the minimum damage, rather than just adding +1? Something like that.
You can dare to do anything and succeed in anything, provided you never forget that two and two do not make four; in clumsy hands, they often make three or even less; but they can make five or six. - Louis-Herbert Lyautey

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