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webkilla
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Re: Few questuions bout game

14 Jun 2012, 02:45

ah ok

ironically enough - googling how to smoke heroin (so I can describe it to my players when they see the adicts that the guild leaves in its wake) informs me that smoking heroin is often called "chasing the dragon"

how thematically appropriate
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webkilla
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Re: Few questuions bout game

14 Jun 2012, 08:25

A word on hardness

I always thought that hardness worked as magic initial super-soak - scaling down damage before normal soak is applied

as in

you have soak 5 and H5 - a 12 dmg attack come in - you only take 2 dmg


but rereading the section on soak in the core book... it sounds like the above would mean that you'd take 7 dmg, as hardness would only totally nulify dmg equal to or under its rating, while not affecting anything above it

which is correct?
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Mei Yu Lian
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Re: Few questuions bout game

14 Jun 2012, 09:50

webkilla wrote:
but rereading the section on soak in the core book... it sounds like the above would mean that you'd take 7 dmg, as hardness would only totally nulify dmg equal to or under its rating, while not affecting anything above it

which is correct?

as i understand this version

hardness (unless very high) mostly protects against mooks and extras
 
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Re: Few questuions bout game

14 Jun 2012, 11:41

Mei Yu Lian wrote:
webkilla wrote:
but rereading the section on soak in the core book... it sounds like the above would mean that you'd take 7 dmg, as hardness would only totally nulify dmg equal to or under its rating, while not affecting anything above it

which is correct?

as i understand this version

hardness (unless very high) mostly protects against mooks and extras


Not if you're using Stone Rhino's Skin. I don't think that it would get charged 8m per use if it were just to be used against small fry.
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Re: Few questuions bout game

14 Jun 2012, 11:52

Hardness does not add to Soak. This is explicitly stated on p.145 in the Order of Attack sidebar: "If Hardness is equal to or greater, the defense absorbs the attack without effect. Otherwise, the damage ignores the defender's Hardness."

Hardness is a kind of stop condition to damage at the beginning of Step 8. Its meant to prevent the rules hole that would allow a Str 1 mortal with no Melee to punch down a stone wall in ~240 strikes and similar foolishness, I think. But since it is a kind of sub-par Perfect soak, it also tends to come in small values and at fairly high expense.
 
Mei Yu Lian
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Re: Few questuions bout game

14 Jun 2012, 15:36

Dinosaur wrote:
Mei Yu Lian wrote:
webkilla wrote:
but rereading the section on soak in the core book... it sounds like the above would mean that you'd take 7 dmg, as hardness would only totally nulify dmg equal to or under its rating, while not affecting anything above it

which is correct?

as i understand this version

hardness (unless very high) mostly protects against mooks and extras


Not if you're using Stone Rhino's Skin. I don't think that it would get charged 8m per use if it were just to be used against small fry.

dino: which part are you saying no to?

that thats how hardness works?
or that hardness from most sources is mostly against mooks?

ofcourse there are sources - charms mostly - that work really well against just about anything
but most hardness ive seen has been the passive stuff from armour - and thats mostly for mooks
 
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Re: Few questuions bout game

14 Jun 2012, 16:10

so... hardness doesn't work like soak, just as a "you must do this much damage to proceed" for attacks?

Well... that certainly nerfs armor compared to how I've previously played with it (I've always thought of it as that kind of unpiercable magic extra soak)

but ok
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Re: Few questuions bout game

14 Jun 2012, 17:30

Mei Yu Lian wrote:
dino: which part are you saying no to?

that thats how hardness works?
or that hardness from most sources is mostly against mooks?

ofcourse there are sources - charms mostly - that work really well against just about anything
but most hardness ive seen has been the passive stuff from armour - and thats mostly for mooks


The intention to use it mostly against mooks. Intention matters little, ultimately; Stone Rhino's Skin really requires an awful lot more to justify the expenditure, such as a Charm to allow Lunars to soak lethal with their full Stamina (doesn't exist presently) or become utterly huge. Being utterly huge tends to change the dimension to "use siege and Artifact weapons" rather quickly for both Alchemicals and Lunars, but colossus Alchemicals with Exoskeletal Armor Plating don't have to pay for their Hardness beyond it using up 6+ Charm slots.
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Re: Few questuions bout game

14 Jun 2012, 18:15

using +6 charm slots on exoskeletal armor?

I'd prefer using artifact armor or find some other workaround to wasting that many charm slots

but fair nuff, hardness doesn't reduce damage - it only nulifies weak dmg
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Re: Few questuions bout game

14 Jun 2012, 18:21

webkilla wrote:
using +6 charm slots on exoskeletal armor?

I'd prefer using artifact armor or find some other workaround to wasting that many charm slots


You can have both. Exoskeletal Armor Plating adds its soak to the armor you're wearing. It's even easier now that superheavy plate is only three dots. In the end, you can get upwards of +39L/+45B soak (on top of Stamina) with a Hardness of 18L/24B, at the low end.

Of course, the recent errata only applied to the Essence 1-5 environment. Anything Essence 6 or higher tends to make it a bit weird.
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Re: Few questuions bout game

15 Jun 2012, 02:52

true true

but there wasn't any errata aimed at the alchemicals?
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Re: Few questuions bout game

15 Jun 2012, 17:17

webkilla wrote:
true true

but there wasn't any errata aimed at the alchemicals?


It didn't catch a few important points, like what happens to Light-Etched Interceptor Barrier now that shields aren't cover, and mistakenly attributed its Essence-draining submodule to a different Charm while making it yield Overdrive motes. Note that it did not add any Overdrive Charms, so Alchemicals still don't have any way to use those motes...
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Re: Few questuions bout game

16 Jun 2012, 00:03

I'm willing to wait for better free content. At least they aren't charging us a couple bucks for it like they've done with the left-overs from a few of the more recent books. Though me grumbling about that is kind of funny, since I'd be more than willing to voluntarily fork over for an errata'd core book in hard copy.
 
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Re: Few questuions bout game

16 Jun 2012, 00:29

Daerim wrote:
I'm willing to wait for better free content. At least they aren't charging us a couple bucks for it like they've done with the left-overs from a few of the more recent books. Though me grumbling about that is kind of funny, since I'd be more than willing to voluntarily fork over for an errata'd core book in hard copy.


Well, the announcement regarding 2.5 was that it would be an ongoing process.
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Re: Few questuions bout game

17 Jun 2012, 07:13

but will it ever end?


Ok, new fun thing to talk about: Eclipse caste anima powers and alchemical charms and submodules

Example: If an eclipse caste solar (or moonshadow abyssal) buys the alchemical charm Optical Enhancement...

well - what would that character have to pay to get the subsequent sub-modules installed? The regular submodule price, or the full eclipse caste 'non-solar charm' cost?
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Re: Few questuions bout game

17 Jun 2012, 10:59

webkilla wrote:
but will it ever end?


Ok, new fun thing to talk about: Eclipse caste anima powers and alchemical charms and submodules

Example: If an eclipse caste solar (or moonshadow abyssal) buys the alchemical charm Optical Enhancement...

well - what would that character have to pay to get the subsequent sub-modules installed? The regular submodule price, or the full eclipse caste 'non-solar charm' cost?


It has to at some point due to finite resources with which to do free work.

As for the Mecha-Eclipse dilemma, I'd charge them double for submodules, but there's not anything I've found to outright state that it happens that way, other than the likely result of the anima power description.
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Re: Few questuions bout game

17 Jun 2012, 13:16

Personally, I'd suggest that the player might just want to play an Alchemical if he's that interested in their Charms.

Otherwise, I agree with Dino and say that the double cost should extrapolate to submodules and other upgrades to Charms of all types. Eclipse are still Solars and should primarily adhere to that theme (with a few exotic tricks), instead of grab-bagging willy nilly from others.
 
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Re: Few questuions bout game

26 Jun 2012, 09:57

Ok, here's a fun one

been looking around at errata'd charms with the martial-ready keyword, as well as those with other 'ready' setups

example:

http://wiki.white-wolf.com/exalted/inde ... eance_Draw

its Martial-ready: Martial Arts, Melee, Thrown


And for thrown this would be great!

Except you'd have to learn an archery excellency AND another archery charm (neither of which help with thrown) first

so... how does that make sense?
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Re: Few questuions bout game

26 Jun 2012, 10:37

Why are all those ambush/unexpected attack-improving Charms in Thrown and not Stealth? It's wacky all around because the foundation of 2e put some things into weird places, and we tend to get stuck with them until someone decides that errata on par with the Fair Folk is absolutely necessary. In the meantime, you can suggest in places where the staff listens that it is a good candidate for the Merged Keyword.
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Re: Few questuions bout game

26 Jun 2012, 16:11

I wouldn't know where to suggest that


I dunno, I was more thinking a special training rule for martial-ready charms

like, you can learn it directly if you meet the requirements of the other ability you want to use it in - skipping the need to learn the pre-req charms - but for an increased price (say x2) and only as a non-caste/favored charm (so it'll take longer)

I dunno

I mean, I can see the overall idea og martial-ready charms as "oh, and you can add this in too - without having to also spend a lot of time going down other charm trees"
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Re: Few questuions bout game

27 Jun 2012, 00:47

But one of the purposes of the Martial-Ready and Merged keywords is to encourage people to spread out in combat abilities, instead of just focusing on Melee or Thrown or Archery and never touching the rest.
 
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Re: Few questuions bout game

27 Jun 2012, 06:13

hmm fair nuf - I guess

but it'd still be a pain for anyone who isn't a dawn or similar weapons-favored caste to learn all of it
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Re: Few questuions bout game

27 Jun 2012, 10:38

Ok, this is kinda tricky for me

I got a new player joining my game - and he's playing a Sid (secret sid)


how should I deal with arcane fate and the players?

I mean, they're supposed to remember each other...

I figure I'll just handwave it by having the sid do some little ritual on them that'll mark them spiritually so they'll remember sids - but do any of you lot have any other ideas or methods?

I know the official way to remember a single sid is to succeed in three wits-occult rolls IIRC - but I don't trust all of my players to succeed in that
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Re: Few questuions bout game

28 Jun 2012, 03:44

webkilla wrote:
hmm fair nuf - I guess

but it'd still be a pain for anyone who isn't a dawn or similar weapons-favored caste to learn all of it


Considering that Martial and Martial-Ready were introduced in the "Dawn Solution" ink monkeys update, that's kind of half the point; your average character masters one fighting style, maybe dabbles in another, because at their core they are a Talky / Crafty / Sneaky /Governy Guy, not a Fighty Guy.

The Dawn is the most Fighty Guy, favoring all the weapon skills, and thus posssesses incentive there to master more than one.

As far as the Sidereal goes, there's a few possibilities. If he's being Sekrit Sid, he probably isn't planning on anima flaring; make a Resplendent Destiny. Even using the shitty core rules, a channel or the like, and a bunch of footwork, a week of prep will let anyone make one with enough Duration for basic needs.

Failing that, if they don't feel comfortable with the limitation of "Don't peripheral expend or you take paradox", they can toss two charms and Ride 2 at Breaking the Wild Mortal, then just get an opportunity to bridle one Solar twice, netting the circle as Acquaintences.

Remember that anyone who succeeds at their Wits+Occult roll can prod other people into trying again. Eventually they'll all succeed and not need to care about Arcane Fate.
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Re: Few questuions bout game

29 Jun 2012, 00:08

Wits + Integrity in 2e. For some reason.
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